S2 Episode 24: Martinsville Madness

[00:00:05] Speaker A: This is Ray's Rowdy Racing with Caleb Conrady and Dawson Edwards. [00:00:13] Speaker B: Hello, NASCAR world. Welcome into Ray's Rowdy Racing. We got some exciting news and some new hosts joining the mix. I'm Ike Everard. [00:00:20] Speaker C: And I'm Ashlyn Register. [00:00:22] Speaker B: And we are excited to meet you all. So a little bit about what's going on here is, of course, yes, Dawson and Caleb are still involved, so don't worry, they're not going anywhere. But we just felt like mixing in some new voices and new hosts to keep the content rolling was the way to go. So we're obviously excited to have Dawson and Caleb with us when they can be. And Dawson's gonna be on this episode, too, a little bit later. But to get things started here today. [00:00:47] Speaker C: But you're stuck with us. [00:00:48] Speaker B: You're stuck with us. [00:00:49] Speaker C: You're stuck with us now. [00:00:50] Speaker B: And it's two new hosts of the show. So a little bit about us actually. We used to host a NASCAR radio show in college called Drivers Meeting. It was a lot of fun. We did some great information. We interviewed some drivers. We used to go cover the championship race out in Phoenix. And Ashlyn here has a little bit more to her NASCAR story as well. You want to tell them? [00:01:09] Speaker C: Yeah. So I actually worked for NASCAR after three weeks of graduating from asu. So I graduated, moved straight to Charlotte, and I worked for the international department. So a lot of people know what that means. But you're basically going to see what you see on TV here in the United States. And we took that and actually covered up all the sponsorships and then redistribute it to over about a hundred different countries so everyone else could experience the NASCAR race as well. And so I produced that. And then I produced a little bit on the pace lap with Jesse Punch, if you guys know her dad, that's Doc Punch. And so have a little dabble in the NASCAR world itself. And then I still actually freelance for them, too. So I love the sport. Grew up loving the sport. So give me love, please. [00:01:51] Speaker B: Yeah, big time. Nascar, NASCAR International Registration. [00:01:53] Speaker C: Give me love, please. [00:01:55] Speaker B: If you ever want to know the inside stories, just hit her up. She might tell you a little bit about some of the drivers. [00:01:58] Speaker C: Not really on social media, but I can. [00:02:00] Speaker B: No, I'll hit us up. [00:02:02] Speaker C: I'll check my DMs, I'll check my. [00:02:04] Speaker B: DMs, Instagram, and maybe she'll respond to comments. So, yeah, I mean, without further ado, let's dive into it, Ash. [00:02:11] Speaker C: Okay. [00:02:11] Speaker B: It's a big week in nascar. We watched the race, obviously, last race before the championship, and some crazy drama, I think more drama than we've probably seen in a cutoff race ever. [00:02:23] Speaker C: Yeah, I would say, other than the Ross Chastain, but we'll get to that. [00:02:27] Speaker A: Other than. [00:02:28] Speaker B: But I mean, that played into it. I think this is bigger because this has implications that could alter the sport as we know it, depending on, you know, what happens with teams who are colluding with each other and the ways NASCAR deals with it. [00:02:42] Speaker A: And we found out one of the. [00:02:43] Speaker B: Ways that they're dealing with it today, actually, they penalized Ross Chastain's team, Bubba Wallace's team, and Austin Dillon's team. Not heavily, though they did punish them for helping manipulate the outcome of the race. But all they did was take away the crew chief for next race, a crew member, and they find them some money. So not a massive penalty when it comes to manufacturer orders and plans between teams. So a lot of people are saying we could see more of this in the future of that race manipulation. [00:03:12] Speaker C: I think we already see it now just not play into a big fat factor. And I think that if you look at it from a standpoint of different races and the different outcomes that it could, this was defining a championship four. This wasn't just a Pocono race in the middle of the season. That, yes, does count because you do have to win and get in. But I think with the way that they were looking at it was these were the last two people that were getting in on points. And I think that if they were given that opportunity again, I think teams are going to do that no matter what NASCAR is willing to do. Because at the end of the day, they want to help that manufacturer. They want to help Chevys help Chevys. They want Fords to help Fords. And I don't think the manufacturers are going to come back and say, stop helping one another. The team owners may, but I don't think from a manufacturer standpoint, what are you going to say? No, don't help each other, then what's the point of having different manufacturers out there and having teammates? Because at the end of the day, teammates are going to help teammates and manufacturers are going to help manufacturers for sure. [00:04:12] Speaker B: And I don't think the manufacturers are the ones who are going to have the problem with it. But when it comes to being a fan of the sport and watching a race and you start to see these things going on where, you know, quite literally two Chevys are making a blockade behind William Byron, so we can't fall back anymore. That seems like an issue just in terms of racing. I mean as we start to see that we're going to see these manufacturers starting to build feeder teams that can like push their other teams cars to victory and it's going to start to create issues. [00:04:39] Speaker C: And I think that they need to look at that from a standpoint of only manufacturers and what they are telling their drivers at the end of the day for sure. Because Bubba Wallace, if you listen to his radio, which they played, I would have never thought that they were trying to help. It sounded like he was blowing a tire and then it looked like he was helping. [00:04:58] Speaker B: Well, they were a lot smarter about their assistance than. [00:05:00] Speaker C: But that's what I'm saying is that these manufacturers are going to find loopholes at the end of the day and I don't think that we're not going to see that anymore. I think just for the level that we are at right now, it was just. It was just a different playing field. And I think that if we look at it from another standpoint, this didn't happen last year. [00:05:19] Speaker A: No. [00:05:20] Speaker C: This didn't happen two years ago. [00:05:21] Speaker B: We also didn't see this is such a unique situation though in terms of how the points were and in terms of William Byron losing spots and Bell not being able to gain one without a lap car. [00:05:30] Speaker C: And so I think with that we have to think manufacturers are going to look at it by like circumstance. By circumstance. I don't think this is be going to come like a thing. Every race we only see Chevy's driving with Chevys unless it's Talladega and Daytona. That's completely different. [00:05:45] Speaker A: Sure. [00:05:45] Speaker B: And that's always been going on. [00:05:47] Speaker C: But I don't think that manufacturers are just going to be like team up and block everyone. I think this is going to be a circumstance by circumstance. And that just was what happened this past weekend. [00:05:56] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:05:56] Speaker B: And it's hard now in the situation with the sport where manufacturers have so much power. You know, there's the preferred partners of these manufacturers that they're getting theoretically better equipment, they're getting more information, they're getting more help and assistance from the manufacturer than some of the smaller teams. And all these teams are vying to be their manufacturer's main team. So everybody's going to want to help and not fall out of the good graces. [00:06:17] Speaker C: No. And if you look at it, RCR and Track House are not small teams but they are not big winning organizations as Hendrick is. And we've all seen what happened with Rash has And Rick Hendrick in the past. So if I was a manufacturer and I was even just Ross Chastain, of course I would try and get back in the good graces of Rick Kendrick and trying to help one of his drivers out. And so I think it's just also a driver by driver standpoint. And I'm not going to throw out names of who I would think wouldn't do that, but I think there are certain people out there that probably wouldn't have done that. [00:06:51] Speaker B: But I was shocked that it was Ross and Austin Dillon. Those would have been two of the names that I would think with no chance would they be helping out William Byron and helping out Hendrix car. [00:06:59] Speaker C: See, I think Ross has an underlying. [00:07:01] Speaker B: Ross may be scared, but Austin Dillon I feel like would be the kind of guy who'd be like, nah, I'm just gonna go past. [00:07:07] Speaker C: That's fair. But if you look at it from a standpoint, RCR really has nothing to show this year. [00:07:13] Speaker B: No. [00:07:13] Speaker C: And so if you're gonna go and you're gonna bump and run William Byron, who literally has a chance of getting to the championship four, you're gonna make more enemies than you're actually gonna make, 100%. [00:07:21] Speaker B: And I think they knew that, and. [00:07:22] Speaker C: I don't think that's why. I think that's why they pulled him back. At the end of the day, I think if it was for any other championship, not even championship four, if it was any other race, 100%, Austin Dylan would have bumped and run him and he would have been spun out. But I think from a standpoint, they played the safe card there. And I think, yes, they could have been way smarter with how they were wording it on the radio, But I think that at the end of the day, they did what they needed to do. And in my opinion, the person that made it through deserved to make it through because both of them had people helping them out. [00:07:57] Speaker B: But. [00:07:57] Speaker C: But one made a move that should not have been made. [00:07:59] Speaker A: Sure. [00:07:59] Speaker B: So speaking of the championship four and who made it through, this is statistically the worst championship four that we've ever seen. [00:08:07] Speaker C: Okay. [00:08:07] Speaker B: Statistically speaking, the four drivers who got out last round had better, had better seasons than the four drivers who made it forward by wins, average finishing position, variety of metrics. So it's kind of renewed calls for the changing of the playoff format back to either a 10 race series or, you know, a full season points battle like we used to see. And I'm just curious, like, what do you think? Do you think the playoff is Worth it. Still to add the excitement or is penalizing the best drivers for having a bad three race stretch worth it to, you know, create? [00:08:41] Speaker C: I think that it is. I love the playoffs the way that it is. Do you look at from any other sport? Yes, it's always, well, this team made it this far and this team. But they do it in baseball. You can have five, a hundred percent, three bad games and you could have had the most wins and you had three bad games against the worst team in the nl and then you're out. [00:09:01] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:09:02] Speaker C: And so it's just like, why penalize NASCAR and make it. Well, this person's the best person and they won six races and they're the king of nascar and they look so perfect. And this is who NASCAR wants plastered on all of their windows and all their walls and the face of nascar? No. If you're looking from a NASCAR fan standpoint, you are wanting this excitement. They are gaining more traction, they are gaining younger fans, they are gaining more people, probably more Tyler Reddick fans. It's not just Chase Elliott and Kyle Larson and Kyle Busch now and Joey Logano. These are bigger names and smaller teams that are having a chance to win a championship at the end of the day. And I think that's what NASCAR was built on. And I'm glad that they're going back to that. Yes. Should people who have higher chances of winning. Yes, probably being the championship four. But life happens. And I think Kyle Larson will get over it. He already has two championships. [00:09:55] Speaker D: True. [00:09:56] Speaker B: No, I mean, and that's fair. But I think the thing that separates racing from other sports is that every week you have all of the competitors on the same playing field. [00:10:03] Speaker C: No. And it does. [00:10:04] Speaker B: In baseball. [00:10:04] Speaker A: Right. [00:10:05] Speaker B: You gotta go with matchups. In football, you gotta go with matchups. And so the only way to determine a champion is by having a playoff. [00:10:12] Speaker C: And that's fair. But if you listen to other drivers say it is, everything has to go perfect that day. Sheer dumb luck. To win a race. There is not a play here, a play there. They are calling that minute by minute, second by second. And I think that's why a lot of people love nascar. It's not just turning left, it's not just turning in circles and circles and circles. And everyone just looks at you like you're dumb because you love watching cars go in circles. There is so much strategy and things that go into this sport that not a lot of people who are probably listening to this podcast do know, but that the common listener would not know. And I think that that's why you're seeing more people get into the sport nowadays is because of that excitement. It's not like any other sport. It is genuinely its own stock car auto racing. And that it brings that excitement. Because if you told me four years ago Tyler Reddick was going to be for a championship for, I would have said you lost your mind. But this man is showing up and he is doing it when it needs to. And I think that that speaks volumes at the end of the day, because teams can show up at the last minute and still win a championship in any sport. [00:11:18] Speaker B: But like with Reddick, he won the regular season championship. He showed up week after week and consistently earned that. And to me, the regular season championship these days is a better measure of what teams and drivers are having consistent success. And I think that, yes, it's dumb luck to win a race, but that's where it kind of becomes. It kind of becomes a bad representation of who, who's been the best driver when it is a three race elimination. [00:11:43] Speaker C: Can I ask what statistics are they? I know what statistics they're going off of, but Joey Ilano is a two time NASCAR champion. [00:11:51] Speaker B: Sure, but I'm saying statistically this season, so last year Ryan Blaney set the record for lowest average finishing position by a champion, and this year he has a lower one, and so does Joey. Joey's averaging like 15th place this year. And somehow, as a chance to win. [00:12:04] Speaker C: A title, Joey's a special case because Alex Bowman. [00:12:08] Speaker B: Sure. But even then, like, there's no reason that a guy who's averaging 15th place should be eligible to win the title when there's guys averaging eighth place, seventh place. [00:12:16] Speaker C: No, and I understand that, but I love that part of nascar. Life is not fair. And that speaks for everything across the board. Life is not fair. [00:12:27] Speaker B: And so neither should be nascar. [00:12:29] Speaker C: I'm not saying neither should be nascar. I'm saying they were given these rules from the beginning of the season. They understand how they work. You win and you're in. This wasn't like they just showed up at the end of the actual regular season and said, okay, guys, you're doing three races here, three races here, three races here. If you're horrible at these, then you're out. They were told that from the beginning. And these teams have been working on those cars for months, 100%. And so, yes, things do happen at the end of the day, but things do happen during the regular season. And if they show up in that summer and win a race, we would not be, we would be having this conversation. In my opinion, if Harrison Burton had made it through, if these like Chase Briscoe, then I would be like, okay, what are we doing here with the final Four? But William Byron has won multiple races this season. Tyler Reddick was the regular season champion, Ryan Blaney is now going for back to back championships and Joey Logano is a two time. So it's not like you're sitting here saying that these are nobodies. [00:13:26] Speaker B: No, they're not. [00:13:27] Speaker C: And they don't deserve it for sure. And I think that's where I love that part, is that these are people that had not great regular seasons but are showing up when it actually matters. And I'm not saying that the other drivers didn't, but they were given that same opportunity to show up when it mattered and it just didn't fall into their. [00:13:44] Speaker B: No, they absolutely were. And that is, I guess when NASCAR is going for even called the playoffs. They want a playoff atmosphere. They want that October baseball. They want, yeah, you know, that January football playoff feel where every, every mistake is magnified over three races, every finishing position matters and they've achieved that for sure. [00:14:00] Speaker C: And that's what I love about that sport. [00:14:02] Speaker B: I just don't know if it's the most representative champion of the season. [00:14:06] Speaker C: No, and that's totally fair. But we can go all the way back to Daniel Hemrick who won literally no races the entire Xfinity and won the last championship race and won an Xfinity championship. At least in my opinion. These drivers have proven and have won races during the regular season. It wasn't just someone who made it in by points and has slid by. [00:14:25] Speaker B: All the way up other than Joey. [00:14:27] Speaker C: Joey won. [00:14:28] Speaker B: Joey did win. [00:14:29] Speaker C: We were there. We were there in Nashville. He was almost that. But then again he just got lucky and capitalized on other people's mistakes but then came out in that next round and won a race. [00:14:40] Speaker B: True. [00:14:41] Speaker C: So it's like Joey Logano took defeat and then was given another chance and said, okay, watch this and came out. And I think that speaks more excitement into the sport than ever before because I'm not a Joey Logano fan, but I'm going to be cheering him for that because he took defeat, came back and then actually won a race. And that's what I think is so cool about this. [00:15:03] Speaker B: Are you rooting for Joey to win the championship? [00:15:04] Speaker C: That was not what I had said in that. [00:15:06] Speaker B: I'm pretty sure I heard that. [00:15:07] Speaker C: No, that was not. I am. Can I be. I don't want to be Biased. [00:15:12] Speaker B: Yeah, you could be biased. Your podcast. [00:15:14] Speaker C: No, I'm not. [00:15:15] Speaker B: Yeah, you are. [00:15:16] Speaker C: No, no. [00:15:16] Speaker B: Yeah, you are. [00:15:17] Speaker C: Can I. You want me to. That should be later on. [00:15:20] Speaker D: Who. [00:15:20] Speaker B: Who's going to win the title? [00:15:23] Speaker C: Biasly. I want Tyler Reddick to win. [00:15:26] Speaker B: Okay. [00:15:26] Speaker A: I like it. [00:15:27] Speaker C: But I think it would be really cool to see Joey won a third because not a lot of people have ever done that in this day and age in the sport. [00:15:36] Speaker B: That is true. Three titles is a pretty big milestone. [00:15:38] Speaker C: That is a very big milestone. [00:15:39] Speaker B: Before Danny wins one, well, that's a whole different story. Will Denny Hamlin ever win a championship? [00:15:45] Speaker C: Yeah. Tyler Reddick wins one. He'll technically win as an owner. [00:15:48] Speaker B: Well, yeah. So, I mean, and that's my. My thing is, for those who don't know, we're headed to Phoenix next week. We'll be out there. I'll be at the race. Ashley won't be. [00:15:56] Speaker C: Why are you laughing at me? I'm the one who got you past it. [00:15:59] Speaker B: And I'm very grateful for that. But selfishly, I would love to see Tyler Reddick win and just see Michael Jordan win a ring, not a basketball ring. But it would be cool to see CMJ win a title. So I'm here for that. I'm rooting for Tyler Reddick. And like I said, I think that the regular season championship to me now is more important than even the NASCAR champion. [00:16:16] Speaker C: No, it is. And it proves over crap, you're gonna. [00:16:20] Speaker B: Make me 26 races. [00:16:21] Speaker C: Thank you. Math was not math. [00:16:25] Speaker B: It proves that you are consistently the best driver over the first 26 races of the season. [00:16:30] Speaker C: Yeah, it does. And I think that I'm glad that the regular season champ made it into the final four. [00:16:36] Speaker B: And I'll add on to that. Kyle Larson would have been the regular season champ had he been able to run the Coke 600. And we obviously know he couldn't because of Indy in the rain. But had he ran and even gotten a couple points at Charlotte that weekend, he would have been regular season champion. And now he, with six wins, is sitting outside of the tap four and not able to win a championship. [00:16:58] Speaker C: Good. [00:16:58] Speaker A: That's crazy. [00:16:59] Speaker C: Told me I could be biased. [00:17:00] Speaker B: No, you could. Why don't you like. Because Dawson will have something to say about that. [00:17:06] Speaker C: He will. [00:17:06] Speaker B: He's a big Kyle fan. [00:17:08] Speaker C: I'm sorry that your driver is a little dud. [00:17:11] Speaker B: Yeah, but see, you're so locked in on these drivers personalities, which I respect. [00:17:15] Speaker C: It's important. [00:17:16] Speaker B: Brandability, marketability is important. [00:17:18] Speaker C: But I feel like this day and age, you have to have personality. You have to be willing to put yourself out there on social media. I don't care if you're an artist. I don't care if you're a driver. I don't care if you're a football player. I don't care if you're a musician teacher and you want to be noticed and move your way up. You have to have personality and you have to have that wow factor. Kyle Larson has the wow factor in his driving. He doesn't have the wow factor in his regular life. [00:17:44] Speaker A: Yet. [00:17:44] Speaker B: How does Chase Elliot continue to win most popular driver year after year after year? [00:17:48] Speaker C: Because it just rigged, dad. [00:17:49] Speaker B: Yeah, okay, but that's how Dale Jr won it at some point. No, Dale Jr though, gave good interviews. He was fun. [00:17:56] Speaker C: You're gonna tell me if he didn't have that earn heart last. [00:18:01] Speaker B: But do you think. [00:18:01] Speaker C: But you know who beat him out the one year. Casey Kane. [00:18:04] Speaker B: That's true. [00:18:05] Speaker C: And I will go on that rant. I don't think these people want to go on my. [00:18:09] Speaker B: Ashland's a huge Casey Kane fan, so. Yeah, watch out. No, but I mean, at some point that that dad factor's got to wear off on Chase. [00:18:17] Speaker A: Right. [00:18:17] Speaker B: If what you say is true about marketability, because according to you, his personality is not there. So. [00:18:24] Speaker C: No. [00:18:25] Speaker B: What consistently makes him the most popular driver and will that stop anytime soon? [00:18:30] Speaker C: Probably. I'm hoping so. I'm hoping so because from my standpoint and the way that I look at it is that they base it off of their. They base it off of who their dad is. [00:18:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:44] Speaker C: And as of right now, with everything that is happening, I want to Chase Briscoe, I want a Todd Gillen, I want a Harrison Burton, I want those guys who actually have personality that do the interviews that show who they are to win most popular Driver. [00:19:03] Speaker A: That would be cool. [00:19:04] Speaker C: But I know that that will not happen because of also the teams that they are on. And I think that also plays a factor into it. Yes, Bill Elliott's name is going to play a huge factor into that. But if you are just scrolling through Instagram, you're going to see more Hendrick and more Joe Gibbs and more Penske than you are going to see 2311 and Front Row Motorsports in a one single car teen with a 21 100%. So I think that's where Wood brothers. Sorry, that was literally escaping my brain. And so I think that also plays a huge factor into it is that they are given more of a chance and a magnitude of putting who they are out there in the world than these smaller teams are. And I think that people need to look at these smaller teams and see who those drivers are and see that these are great, great drivers. And just because they don't win as much as these bigger teams are, maybe they're more fun. [00:20:05] Speaker A: Maybe like that good personality. [00:20:07] Speaker C: They have great personalities, literally. Go talk to Todd. Go talk to Todd Gillen. He is the funniest person that you will ever meet. [00:20:14] Speaker B: We should get him on the podcast. [00:20:15] Speaker C: We should. That'd be really cool. Go talk to Harrison Burton. Yes, he's had a hard season. Yes, he's going down to the Xfinity. But go talk to these younger drivers, and I think that that's awesome as well. And, like, they have popular dads. [00:20:31] Speaker A: Yeah, right. [00:20:32] Speaker B: 100. [00:20:33] Speaker C: But I also think that Chase came out with such a bang coming from Hendrick. [00:20:37] Speaker B: He did. And coming up to the 24, even though he switched out of it and. [00:20:40] Speaker C: Then he' and so there is such a popularity factor with just a number as well that I think that also plays into nostalgic for a lot of NASCAR people. [00:20:49] Speaker B: Absolutely. And NASCAR is a huge nostalgia sport. [00:20:51] Speaker C: It is. [00:20:51] Speaker B: Which is why you have all the purists arguing, you know, for a full season championship and things like that. [00:20:56] Speaker C: And I understand that. But times are changing, people. I'm putting my fan. Putting my hand down. [00:21:02] Speaker B: Why can't. What if they did a NASCAR playoff champion and a NASCAR full season champion? [00:21:08] Speaker C: There's just too many champions, and now we're just handing out participation. Participation awards. And I'm not here for that. [00:21:15] Speaker A: It's just two. [00:21:16] Speaker C: I'm not here for that. [00:21:18] Speaker B: You could appease both sides, though. And then if they really want to go down the route of these other sports, you open up the chance for somebody to win a double crown. [00:21:25] Speaker C: Whoa. [00:21:26] Speaker B: And that's even cooler. No, that's more money and more marketing. [00:21:31] Speaker C: But NASCAR doesn't have that much money. [00:21:33] Speaker B: They know. More money for them. [00:21:34] Speaker C: Okay. They want money. Nah, I'm good. [00:21:38] Speaker B: Not a fan. [00:21:39] Speaker C: Not a fan. [00:21:40] Speaker B: Usual, dude. We'll go out to Bowman Gray before the clash next year and we'll race one on one. Winner can have it their way. [00:21:45] Speaker C: Us. [00:21:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:21:47] Speaker C: How are we getting on Bowman Gray? [00:21:48] Speaker B: We're just gonna tell nascar. We're gonna say, this is what we're doing. I'll excuse if I win. You make a regular season 36 race champion. [00:21:54] Speaker C: I don't think that's how that's gonna work. [00:21:57] Speaker B: You got the connections. Let's hook it up. [00:22:00] Speaker C: I know a couple People that can help us with that, but not to that level. [00:22:04] Speaker B: I think that'd be Fire. We'll go out to K1 one day. [00:22:06] Speaker A: We'll do. [00:22:07] Speaker B: We'll bring Caleb. Caleb and Dawson and Derby. [00:22:11] Speaker C: You just said Fire. [00:22:12] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:22:13] Speaker C: On live. [00:22:13] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:22:14] Speaker C: You don't talk like that in person. [00:22:16] Speaker B: Yeah, I do. [00:22:17] Speaker C: No, you don't. [00:22:17] Speaker A: Yeah, I do. [00:22:18] Speaker B: But anyway, championship race coming up. Very excited. Yes. Also, there hasn't been one of these episodes in a while, so is there anything that stuck out to you since September? [00:22:27] Speaker C: I'm a little biased because I worked the race at the Roval, so I actually know what happened in that one. From a standpoint, I think that honestly changed the trajectory of the entire playoffs because that's when Alex Bowman did get the penalty and moved Joey Logano through. But also, we almost lost Tyler Reddick. [00:22:47] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:22:48] Speaker C: In that round. That whole race right there truly changed the trajectory into the round of eight. And I think for the entire playoffs because two of those final four people would not even be there if it weren't for that Roval race. [00:23:01] Speaker B: No, it totally did. [00:23:02] Speaker C: And so I think that's what stood out to me the most. The only other thing that stands out to me is Darlington with Chase Briscoe winning. And I think that we're going to see not these unknown name drivers, but I think that these smaller teams and these drivers that are moving up, I think we're going to see a lot more out of them in these next couple of years, especially with how NASCAR is changing. And I think I'm really excited for that because at the end of the day, I grew up a Hendrick fan, as he said. I am a Casey Kane fan through and through. But I am a little tired of seeing Hendrick and Penske and Joe Gibbs kind of take over Hendrick. I know you can boo me, Mr. Jeff Gordon, Mr. Jeff Gordon over here, if you didn't know. He's the biggest Jeff Gordon fan, by the way. But it just, it to me, it's basically like, okay, yay, the Chiefs are eight. No, again too. Here we go again, basically. And I'm ready to see something different in this sport. And I think that that's why I love the playoffs so much, because it gives people that may not have the best season the opportunity to prove themselves under pressure when that time comes. And so I think that's why I look at it differently than you probably do because I love an underdog story, especially in nascar. [00:24:21] Speaker B: So that. That's it for the first half of this episode here on Raised Rowdy Racing. New hosts, Ike Everard, Ashley Register. Dawson's coming right up and Caleb will be back when he's back from his honeymoon, so we hope he's having a great time out there. [00:24:35] Speaker C: Yeah, send a DM congratulating him. [00:24:37] Speaker B: Yeah, go congratulate Caleb in the Instagram comments and DMS and all that. So till next time. Well, till the second half of this episode. [00:24:46] Speaker C: Zach Everard, Ashland Register. [00:24:49] Speaker A: Welcome back into Raised Rowdy Racing. Ike Everard, now here with your familiar host, Dawson Edwards. Dawson, how's it going? [00:24:56] Speaker D: What's up, dude? How are you? [00:24:58] Speaker A: I'm good. I'm good, man. I think we got a lot to talk about this week. A lot of exciting drama, for sure. [00:25:05] Speaker D: Yeah, it was a wild week. Kind of a black eye in a way, for some. You know, I. I posted on Twitter, like, I kind of just called it lame. Like, that was really the only way I knew how to post, like, to express those last, like, couple. What was it, like, 20 laps there where all the stuff. [00:25:22] Speaker A: It kind of was, right? I mean, it wasn't. It wasn't racing. [00:25:24] Speaker D: No, it was. [00:25:25] Speaker A: No, it was weird. It was like. [00:25:28] Speaker D: Yeah, I. I texted my dad during the race, and I'm sitting there and I was like, you know, William Byron, he did that exact same thing last year, like, the long run, just like, wasn't there. He just, you know, falling back. And I actually, in my mind, I was like, dude, there's. I was literally sitting there. I was like, no way that they're, like, sandbagging behind him, like, not trying to pass him. [00:25:50] Speaker A: And I thought. [00:25:51] Speaker D: I thought that. And I. I texted my dad. I was like, how is William Byron, like, holding these guys off? And he was like, he's blocking like hell with his spotter, I guess. And I'm like, yeah, I mean, he is blocking like hell. But I was like, I really hope they're not doing that. And like, you know, they're two Chevrolets. I was looking at it. I'm like, man, I just really hope that's not the case. And then, you know, after the race was over, I loved that they played the audio from, like, all the different teams. [00:26:17] Speaker A: Like, I like that they were scared to do that. [00:26:19] Speaker D: Yeah, I love that. I don't think that would. [00:26:21] Speaker B: How. [00:26:21] Speaker A: How dumb. How dumb were they to, like, talk about it like that on the radio, though? [00:26:24] Speaker D: Yeah. You know, and it's already like, what are you doing? Yeah, it's not private. Like, they, they. They know that literally everyone's listening. I mean, you literally. You can Go back now. And I'm not sure what these accounts on Twitter use, but you know how, like, every car has a. Every car has an on board, like, right in, like the right front area now, and you can sync those with the audio. Like, they can go back and clip the whole entire race. And people do that, you know, right after races all the time on some of these accounts on Twitter. And I mean, there's just no denying anything now with SMT and having the onboards in every car and being able to line up everything. There's just nothing. It's just not like it was. And that's only. That's only. That's a really new thing that they've started with all this. So, like, now that that's a thing, there's literally no way to hide it. So. [00:27:17] Speaker A: No, I mean, it is. Yeah, it's. And it's crazy to me that, like, I guess it comes from manufacturers. Right. It's crazy to me. The two cars that were doing it, like Ross and Austin Dillon are the two cars that I would probably least expect to be helping out Hendrick. [00:27:31] Speaker D: Yeah. Yeah, I agree. It just. I guess it had to be a Chevrolet thing. And then I don't know if you heard what they said to SVG, but they told him like, hey, remember what the 12 did to you? You know, that's from Chevrolet. And it's like, I didn't. I don't know, like, does Chevrolet, like, have a person there that's like telling these guys this or what? Like, I don't know how that works. [00:27:55] Speaker A: You know, I think they got like a Chevy race center. Right. So they're probably in communication with all the teams. [00:27:59] Speaker D: Yeah, I guess so, like, at the kind of, like, kind of thing for the team. [00:28:03] Speaker A: Because, I mean, it's so huge for them to get these guys through. And they want manufacturers. Championship. They want to be. [00:28:08] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:28:09] Speaker A: The championship winners. Manufacturer. [00:28:11] Speaker D: Yeah. And let's not act like they're any short of money. So I don't think, like, monetary fines really matter to these. [00:28:18] Speaker A: No. And that's the other thing, right. Is these penalties that got handed down are not that strict. [00:28:24] Speaker D: Yeah, I agree. And I, you know, it always gets brought up, the 2013 Richmond, the spin gate thing with like, Clint Boyer and Michael Waltrip Racing and all that, and like those penalties, like, essentially, like, put Michael, Walter Brayson, like, out of business. And it was very similar to what they said. I mean, they. I'm pretty sure they like, literally said on the radio, like, spin out, basically, or, you know, something like That I think, like, that was the talk about. I want to say, like, Brian Vickers, like, they called him into pit for no reason, and there was just certain things they, like, specifically said. And I know that, like, no one said, like, hey, you know, spin out or, hey, you know, layover, whatever, but it was. It was. It was just, you know, kind of weird. Like, I just don't remember it being. I mean, I know we had those couple instances, but, like, all this, like, something else. I'll give an example that really kind of pissed me off at the Talladega race when Kyle Larson's pushing Brad Keselowski and then the spotters telling him, like, don't push him here. Don't push him here so that Ricky Stenhouse, another Chevrolet, can win. [00:29:34] Speaker A: Right. [00:29:34] Speaker D: Like, what is that? Like. Like, I don't understand that. Like, if Larson pushes Brad K. In my mind, that. Not that I don't think Larson could have passed Brad K. But I think if he's pushing him hard enough, they would have passed Ricky Stenhouse. That's an extra point for Larson. You know what I mean? I just. I don't. I just don't remember that stuff back in the day. Especially, like, plate racing's gotten so bad about it now. But, like, back in the day, it didn't matter if you were a Dodge pushing a Ford or a Ford pushing a Chevy. It was more of, like a driver to Dr. Thing. Like, if you remember, like, Tony Stewart and Dale Jr. They were, like, always buddies on plate tracks. They didn't drive for the same team, and they drove for Chevrolet for. At the same time. And then Tony was a Toyota for a little bit, and then back to a Chevrolet and his. His own team. But I don't know, it's just gotten. These manufacturers have gotten, like, too involved. Like, with the actual racing, I would say, like, they need to be involved with money and support and all that. Yes. But, like, with the actual racing, they're, like, too involved, in my opinion. [00:30:38] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. I mean, there's so much incentive now to, like, please your manufacturing to knock it on their bad side because you want to be that number one team with them. And so, you know, if you get knocked down the pecking order, it's gonna impact your race team in a big way. [00:30:51] Speaker D: I mean, you see it right now with Ford and Stuart Haas, when they took away their, like, tier one. You know exactly what you're talking about. [00:30:59] Speaker A: I mean, it ended Stewart Haas, basically. So, like, you can't piss off the manufacturer in the way that the sport structured right now. And I don't know how you go back to how it was just because of the incentives that are in place now, you know, for manufacturers and teams. [00:31:14] Speaker D: Yeah. And you know, people, people. You can blame it on the playoffs, you can blame it on a lot of stuff, but it's just really like. I just wish it didn't matter, playoffs or not. I just wish every team would go out there and fight for their best finish possible for that day is what I wish, you know? [00:31:32] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean that's what it's supposed to be. [00:31:34] Speaker D: Yeah. And that's where it's like, you know, like last week you really, you only had. This is where it kind of gets weird for me. You only have eight guys really racing for anything. So like at this point in the season, what does it hurt? The 3 and the 1 to help out or the 23 to help out? The 20. It doesn't hurt them at all, you know, which. [00:31:52] Speaker A: It only helps them, you know. And now they're owed one next year. [00:31:55] Speaker D: Yeah. Yeah. And then. And I saw where it took, I mean what a brutal year for RCR. But it took, yeah, it took the three from like 28th to 33rd in points. Like 33rd in points is like that's legit. A black guy, like that's brutal. You know, that's. [00:32:11] Speaker A: That really is. [00:32:11] Speaker D: That's really. [00:32:12] Speaker A: That's in the three car, no less. Yeah, like that's. [00:32:14] Speaker D: Yeah, that's. That's rough to come at the end of the year, you know, to happen with what happened at Richmond with them and what happened, you know, this past weekend. It's like what a. Just a bad season and look all the way around. And then now this is the second time their spotters getting suspended on the year after, you know, whatever he said, like wreck them or do this, you know, at Richmond and stuff. So I. [00:32:41] Speaker A: And that and Kyle Busch missing the playoffs and just the whole, you know, how do you take the most, maybe not the most marketable driver, but one of the most marketable drivers and considered maybe the best driver in the sport and just turn him into basically a non factor. [00:32:53] Speaker D: That's what I was about to say. [00:32:54] Speaker A: It's crazy. [00:32:55] Speaker D: In my opinion, Kyle Busch is still one of, if not the best. I mean he's got to be top three talent wise on the track still. Even. Even though that he's, you know, getting a little older. It's not like he's 55, Daryl Walterman around there, you know, like he did at the end of his career. [00:33:11] Speaker A: You Know, that's where like that's where Denny Hamlin's gonna end up. [00:33:14] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, he still has it and then he still has it and they just. [00:33:19] Speaker A: Denny still has it too, for sure. [00:33:20] Speaker D: They just had some stuff, you know, go wonky as it always does. [00:33:25] Speaker A: His windows closing, though. [00:33:26] Speaker D: It is, yeah. Because I think he's like, he's in his 40s. I think he's like. Yeah, he's low 40, 44 or something like that. So yeah, his window is closing, but Kyle Bush is still a little bit younger. I think Kyle busch is like 39, 38 or 40 somewhere in there. [00:33:42] Speaker A: Yeah, Kyle's got time. I mean, if he gets good equipment. And I feel like they had really bad luck this year too. That definitely played a role. [00:33:48] Speaker D: Yeah, and I think Kyle getting put into those, you know, we saw Kyle make a lot of mistakes this year that I don't think. I think he was literally racing too hard, trying to overcompensate for this streak going on and not, you know, his 20 year streak of win, a win per year and like, you know, not running well and just all this. It's like if you put that, all those couple situations I can think of throughout the year, if you put that back, you know, if he was having a great year, I think he comes out of all those situations a whole lot better and might even have a couple wins this year without overdrive. No doubt. [00:34:26] Speaker A: No doubt. I feel like there's a lot of races where he was contending and he just didn't work out for him. [00:34:29] Speaker D: Yeah. And like being so over aggressive at Darlington is the main one that comes to mind. When he was with Chase Briscoe, you know, trying to pass him on the outside and there was like, there was literally enough room for a car, you know, I don't there, I mean, it was just wide enough for the, you know, between the wall and his car. And I think if he could have just. I don't, I can't remember who was behind him, but somebody was coming. And if he would have just could have laid off there in that corner, I think you might have had him in the next corner. You know, just stuff like that is how I feel. [00:34:58] Speaker A: Yep. And I mean, Kyle Larson's done the same thing this year, but he's just managed to win six times. But I don't know. I mean, I think that winning has. We knew this would happen with the playoff format, but winning is so, so, so important now that I think a lot of these guys are just, they're going all out for it. And that's what NASCAR wanted. Yeah, that's exactly where it's supposed to be. And we saw, like, it pay off at Homestead. That was beautiful racing. [00:35:21] Speaker D: Yeah. Perfect. If every. I love what Doe Jr. Said about that. Like. Like, that's what I expect in nascar, in a NASCAR race. Like, me and. Me and Caleb, not too long ago, earlier this year, we went back and watched the 04 Homestead race, and you just kind of forget. Like, it just looks like the cars could just pass and just do all this stuff. And there's cars. Because they were. And it is true, they were so much harder to drive back things. They had so much horsepower and less tire, you know, so there's guys just busting their ass and it's like, I just agree with what Dell Jr. Said. Like, that race is like what I expect of a stock car NASCAR race on an oval. You know what I mean? [00:36:06] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's crazy to hear drivers complaining about the car being too hard to drive because, like, wouldn't you want that? I feel like that's kind of the point of the sport is it shouldn't be easy. [00:36:15] Speaker D: Yeah, I think. I think they're. It's. It's just. It's still. It's still super hard to drive. It's just in a different way, if that makes sense. Like, with passing being so much like being so aero dependent, it obviously is one thing. And then I've heard the drivers talk about having that, like, when a car like gets loose, there's no, like, there's no really saving it. It's more of just like it snaps loose. And in my opinion, I think that has to do with the smaller sidewall because there's. There's literally less. Less sidewall to lean on. You know, I think that's what that has to do with. So, you know, I don't know, but I just. All that to say I was disappointed. It's disappointing that how awesome of the Martinsville race was because, like, we really. Before, yeah, it was like the best Martinsville race since this new Next gen package, you know, and it was a blast to watch. [00:37:07] Speaker A: And coming out of Homestead, I mean, we've seen some really great racing this year. Yeah, overall. [00:37:11] Speaker D: I mean, yeah, overall, I think this has been one of the best. Like, there's definitely been some low points, but there's also been some very, like, high points. Like, if you look at Jeff Glutz, Jeff Gluck's, you know, little. Was it a good race? Yeah, it's like, yeah, yeah. Some of the most. The best races in his top 10 poll have happened this year. And I, and I do think this overall, like, some of the finishes, some of the racing has been some of the best. It's just. Yeah, some. Some of those little things where it's like if they just. If they had like that super soft tire that they ran at Martinsville and some of these things, like, if they could just fix their road courses and short tracks, it would almost be like really badass every single week. [00:37:58] Speaker A: No, it really would. And I mean, I think they're getting there on the short tracks. I think they're. I think they'll figure it out. Maybe it's the tires, maybe it's just little package adjustments, but, you know, and I think the drivers are getting more comfortable racing this car at the short tracks too. Yeah, I think they're figuring out where they can push and where they can kind of find a little bit of speed and make passes. So hopefully, you know, I don't think they're going away from the next gen car anytime soon. [00:38:20] Speaker D: No, I don't think so. [00:38:22] Speaker A: Hopefully, as this kind of progresses and they get more practice with it, they'll be able to figure it out even more. [00:38:26] Speaker D: And yeah, I think Marville was a huge step in the right direction. Like, it was my favorite. The cars looked awesome to me with all the rubber and how dirty and nasty they looked. It was like that's how a race car is supposed to look after 500 laps at Martinsville. You know what I mean? [00:38:42] Speaker A: Like. Yeah, right. [00:38:43] Speaker D: It's supposed to look dirty and mashed up and just, you know, having dings and dents all over it. Like, that's what I want a car to look like. So I really do think that was a step in the right direction with that soft, really soft tire that they brought on the. I think they was on the right sides were the softer compound. [00:39:01] Speaker A: Yeah, no, that worked well. Yeah, that worked well. And I think tire fall off is always good too. [00:39:06] Speaker D: Oh, yeah. Tire. Tire fall off is what we need. We did. We don't need tires that can outrun a tank of gas. That's. That's never been racing and it never will be. [00:39:16] Speaker A: No. Agreed. [00:39:18] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:39:18] Speaker A: Do you agree with how they officiated that ending, though, with Bell and Byron? [00:39:24] Speaker D: Yes, I agree. The. In real time, watching it, I. You gotta be. You gotta be. You would have to literally be blind, in my opinion, to not see and hear Bell throttle up in the gas while he was in the wall. [00:39:38] Speaker A: For sure. [00:39:38] Speaker D: That's as clear as Day, in my opinion. And did he. Obviously he did not go into the corner like Ross did, but he, when he hit the wall, he stayed in the gas and intended to stay in the wall. And I think that's the most like, clear cut thing of it all. And I told, I was, you know, texting Caleb and Stephen. We have a little. Stephen Paul. We have a little Sunday racing chat, you know, during the race. And I was like, that is. That is the hell melon in my opinion. Like, what happened is the hillmelon and if NASCAR is going to have a rule against it, they better do say or do something because they said that is now illegal. [00:40:20] Speaker A: Yep. No, I mean, absolutely. I feel like the craziest part is he literally could have gotten out of the gas, come off the wall and still been ahead of Bubba. [00:40:28] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:40:29] Speaker A: And that's where I think it's almost like he didn't realize Bubba was helping him. And I don't know if Bubba was helping him on purpose, but it seems a little suspect that he just had a flat tire or something happened to his car in the last lap when, you know, another Toyota needed to pass him. [00:40:45] Speaker D: Yeah, that's the thing. I don't. [00:40:47] Speaker A: That seems a little crazy. [00:40:48] Speaker D: Yeah, I, I agree with you 100%. I don't think Bell realized what was happening, you know, with the, with the 23. But the. I mean, obviously with the penalty coming out, let's just be honest, I feel like it's clear cut now. He was, he was giving it to him. I mean, he was sandbagging and going to lay over and give Bell the spot. And for sure, you know, that's not cool in my opinion. And it's not cool. It's really, it's not cool with the 23. Did. It's not cool the three and the one did. The only thing here is, is it helped Byron and I don't. But I also don't know, did Byron know that they were just gonna block like that, you know, like same thing? I don't know. [00:41:30] Speaker A: Right. I think he must have. The way they were talking about that plan on the radio, I feel like all the Chevy teams knew and they, I think they like their plan was. [00:41:39] Speaker D: To get the most Chevrolets in and. [00:41:41] Speaker A: Yeah, if it had been Larson falling, I think they would have blocked for Larson. You know, if it had been whoever Chase, whatever, you know, happened. Yeah, it would, it would have been the same. [00:41:49] Speaker D: And that's. [00:41:50] Speaker A: And I think, I think Chevy said if Ross had been in that spot, you know, they would have blocked For Ross. [00:41:54] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:41:55] Speaker A: And who knows if that would have happened, but I assume it would. [00:41:57] Speaker D: Yeah, that, that's the thing, though, that would be hard to police. Is. Is in the exact moment, say, Bail doesn't fly into the wall and pull that move. Okay. [00:42:08] Speaker A: Right. If he passes Bubba clean. [00:42:09] Speaker D: Yeah. So if he passes Bubba clean. And this is where it gets tricky, in my opinion. You, you don't, you can't. I don't think you can penalize Bail and Byron because those two guys, specifically, they weren't, they were just racing. They weren't like, doing. [00:42:25] Speaker A: They were not manipulating it. [00:42:27] Speaker D: The manipulating is helping them. But those two guys weren't the ones doing the manipulation. So if, if Bail doesn't hit the wall, I don't think you penalize. Well, obviously I didn't click penalize Byron, but I don't think they would have penalized either one of them, but I do think they penalize. And something was going to have to happen to prove a point for the 23, the 1 and the 3, because like you said, being in this late in the year, those 50 points, the couple hundred grand that they're doing, like, what does that really matter? [00:43:01] Speaker A: You know, another crew chief gets a vacation for a week. [00:43:04] Speaker D: Exactly. [00:43:05] Speaker A: I don't think he's mad. [00:43:06] Speaker D: So in this situation, I don't think it matters. You know, maybe they look at that later on or earlier in the season. If you get Doc 50 points, you're like, you know, that's a whole race and then some probably for, for, you know, most of these guys. So it's. [00:43:19] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a big deal if you're. [00:43:20] Speaker A: Trying to make the playoffs. [00:43:21] Speaker D: Yeah, it. But, but Elton Sawyer also read or watch what he said, and he was like, this is to prove a point. Like, we're not opposed to, you know, suspending drivers and, you know, stuff like that, in my opinion. And this is like, super, super harsh, but, like, if you wanted to just like, prove a point, what if you just took everybody out for Daytona 500, driver, crew chief, spotter, everybody for next year? Like, if they wanted to, would you. [00:43:48] Speaker A: Would you give them a playoff waiver, though, at least? [00:43:50] Speaker D: I don't know. That's what I'm saying, that you're just. [00:43:52] Speaker A: Yeah, you're just. I mean. But honestly, that would prove a point. [00:43:54] Speaker D: That. That's the thing. I think I, I assume they would get the waiver because I guess they always do. But if you start suspending guys and not giving waivers, then something would change. But also, I think the significance of the Daytona 500 would also be, like, sitting the Daytona 500 out would be a huge deal. And say, you still got the waiver, you know, whatever. But, like, missing the biggest race of the year, like, that would have been hilarious, Honestly, in my opinion, I would. [00:44:25] Speaker A: Have loved to see, like, Ross and Austin's reaction to that. [00:44:27] Speaker D: Yeah, they would. They would have been. They would have been pissed. Like, they would. That would have pissed them off, you know? Yeah. Like you just said, I don't know if any of this really matters to anyone else. Kind of what we're talking about with the. With the OEMs having the money. Yes, the team gets fine, you know, whatever, but there's never been a rule of, like, who pays those fines. And I've heard that drop, like, if a driver gets fine sometimes in their contract, that they have to pay for it. If it's for, you know, something else, the team has to pay for it. I heard, like, when Ricky got fined for, like, punching Kyle Bush, like, that was an action that Ricky decided to do. So, like, he would probably have to pay that fine. But when these fines all happen, you don't know who pays them. You know what I mean? [00:45:12] Speaker A: Like, it's a hundred percent in this case. I'm sure it's the teams or, like, the manufacturers. Like, I'm sure that the Chevy just. [00:45:18] Speaker D: Comes in and writes a check. [00:45:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:45:20] Speaker D: For 400 grand for the one in the three, and Toyota comes in and writes a check for 200. Because I'm pretty sure it was, like, driver and crew chief all got fined 100 grand each. I'm pretty sure. [00:45:30] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And crew chief got suspended. Right. For the last race. [00:45:34] Speaker D: Crew chief and spotters. [00:45:35] Speaker A: And so here's the underrated story for that, is that that was gonna be Booty Barker's last race. Crew chief. [00:45:41] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:45:41] Speaker A: Now he's done. [00:45:42] Speaker D: Now he's done. [00:45:42] Speaker A: Now he doesn't get that. So, I mean, does it. Does it prove a point? No, but it's kind of sad a little bit. [00:45:49] Speaker D: Yeah. I just. If you just get what you get when you do stupid, in my opinion. I guess. [00:45:56] Speaker A: No doubt. [00:45:57] Speaker D: When you just blatantly sandbag and racing, it's just like. You know what I mean? Like, they should. They just. Every team. That's why they had that, like, 100 rule. That is clearly not in it anymore, because there's a lot of teams that. That don't do it. And if you do this, you even got to think back to a couple years ago when Blaney was not in the final four. When Logano won the title, Blaney rode behind the 22 and kind of blocked for him in a way and never tried to pass him. Like, they would have to crack. If they're going to do this 100% thing, you got to crack down on it every single race. If you. If that's a thing, you'd have to find Kyle Larson for Talladega because he's not given 100%. Clearly, they say don't push him. You know, don't push him. You know, whatever. [00:46:43] Speaker A: So it's just an impossible rule of police, though, because, you know, sometimes it's strategic. You can't even. You're not giving 100% if you're trying to save fuel. But how do you compare that to a different situation? Unless there's blatant calls for it on the radio. [00:46:55] Speaker D: Exactly. It's saying there's going to be, I feel like, in my mind, and I'm going to use the example that I heard TJ Majors bring up on door bumper clear. There's got to be, like, a common sense rule. And like, when he says, well, what if we get wrecked coming to the start finish line at Talladega and we get in the wall and stay in the wall and stay in the gas? Is that a penalty? No, I don't think that's a penalty. Like, it doesn't help you to stay in the wall. It's not an advantage to stay in the wall at Talladega. Like, it. Is it like a Martinsville or, like, it could be at a Phoenix or Gate, you know what I mean? Some of these, you know, tracks where it clearly is, any track that you. [00:47:33] Speaker A: Got to slow down into the corner is probably going to help. [00:47:36] Speaker D: Exactly. And no, you're not able to do it every lap, but on these last lap things, whatever. So, like, there has to be, like, a common sense aspect to these rules that I'm talking about here. So, like, no, I don't think you get penalized if you get in the wall at Talladega and you stay in the gas. No, I don't think so, because that's not your advantage. But, like, if you go in, if you completely. Like we clearly saw Bell, he was not trying to make the corner in a normal way. He went in there, way over, drove it. He gets. He locks the brakes up, almost wrecks it, turns completely sideways, hits the wall, stays in the gas, coming out of the wall, and literally, you put the video side by side from where he gets into the wall. And what Ross did, they look identical. [00:48:20] Speaker A: So, yeah, it's the same move. [00:48:21] Speaker D: Yeah, exactly. So that's where that common sense comes in. Boom. I call that ride in the wall. Boom. Penalty. I'm glad they penalized him for it. I really am. Like, I. You know, he didn't even have to do it, but I'm glad that he got penalized for it, because I feel like NASCAR is also the only thing they're consistent at, is being inconsistent, and I feel like that is consistent with that rule. So I was like, okay, I'll take that. I like that penalty there. [00:48:47] Speaker A: No, I. I definitely agree with that. I think that any other outcome would have just opened the door to more criticism and probably more, you know, just more kind of talk around the championship for being illegitimate. And I feel like there's already enough talk around it being the wrong championship four. I mean, me and Ashland talked about it a bit. Is like, that's. It's a. It's a hazard of the playoff format. Right. But you get guys who don't necessarily have the stats to back it up, but they performed well in, you know, in October, they performed well in the playoffs, and they've made it through. So that's what. That's what NASCAR wants. The national was saying, you know, that's what other sports have, and that's the drama and excitement, and that makes sense. But to me, like, not having Larson in the Final Four when he's won six times, it's kind of ridiculous. You know, let's say Reddick had missed it. If Reddick hadn't won regular season champ missing it, it's kind of brutal to me. Like, I don't think I agree with you 100% that we're getting representative champions, especially this year. I mean, last year, Blaney had the lowest averaging finishing position of any champ, and this year, you know, there's a chance for that to be broken. So I don't think that. I don't know. I don't think the playoff isn't working, because I think it's bringing in excitement and viewers, but I just kind of have issues with the way it crowns the champion. [00:49:58] Speaker D: I agree with you 100%. I wish. I just feel like NASCAR really did have the perfect recipe back literally 20 years ago when they implemented the first Chase where it was 10 gas for 10 races. [00:50:13] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:50:14] Speaker D: And that created excitement. I mean, I don't know if you remember in 2011, they literally had a tie for the championship. You know what I mean? [00:50:20] Speaker A: Yeah. Right. And it didn't create excitement every year, but that's Okay. I mean, it's racing. It's going to be exciting no matter what. [00:50:25] Speaker D: Yeah, I agree with you. 100. It's just having these like three race seasons basically, and then having the last races one season, like, it doesn't show like a full body of work. You know what I mean? Like in football, like we'll use. Since football is literally king, football's on top. Even though their playoffs are still exactly the same as a normal game, if that makes sense. Like you're playing on the same field for the same time. May the. [00:50:56] Speaker A: You know, you're not. You don't have 36, 38 guys out there. Like, you're not exactly. [00:51:00] Speaker D: There's other. Like you're. You're telling me you could go into Phoenix and be on the outside of a guy that blows a tire and Tech puts you in the wall, you know, with him, and then you're championship runs over. [00:51:12] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:51:13] Speaker D: You don't have to worry about in football, a team from a player from a different team sacking your quarterback, you know, blindsided him, you know, running off the sideline. So that's where it's like, it's just motorsports are just different than ball and stick sports. And in my opinion, like, that's okay. It doesn't have to be the same, you know, like, it just doesn't. And I. I'm gonna be honest with you. Like, I don't want to see back the way it was. And you know, 1990, when a guy won the championship, five races for the end of the year, like, that's not fun. And I understand that. And literally the last, you know, three, five races literally don't mean anything. We don't want that. But like 10, you need a. You need a sample size for racing. Not one race or even. I don't even know if three races enough. If it is three races, it's got to be like three racy tracks, in my opinion. Like a kind of. They even say like the last. You know, I hear a lot of people love like that last stage with like Martinsville, Homestead and Las Vegas. Is that the other one? [00:52:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:52:24] Speaker D: Like, that's pro. That's probably a good sample size. But it's like. Is three races enough to give you like, what it really is? That's why I just think 10 is like perfect. You got 10 guys, 10 races. Let them go, you know? [00:52:40] Speaker A: Right. And I think so too. [00:52:42] Speaker D: Yeah. Another. Another thing that really bugs me about the playoffs is, is having too many playoff drivers. Like 16 playoff guys is half the field, which Is which almost half the field. It's like half off to 30 would be 32. But it's just when you show up to a racetrack anywhere across the country, whether it's in NASCAR or, you know, smaller series, local tracks, you run for top tens, top fives and wins. No one shows up to run 16th. So I don't know why they reward the guys and 11th through 16th in points to get to go to the playoffs. And you know, it's just like what they always say. Well, the sponsors wanted it to be. They all wanted to have a chance and like, they want to do this, in my opinion, get better drivers. If you're, if your driver can't make the top 10 in points, like, get a better driver. I don't know, you know, get. Put more money in to get a better team, you know, whatever. Don't, you know, water it down with that. Same thing that they've said, you know, about the Clash over those years and the, in the All Star race, it's like, hell, if you got a driver's license, you can enter the All Star Race or the Clash. It's like the class used to mean something because it was everybody that had a poll and that was it. If only seven guys had a poll that year, those seven raced. And if 25 guys had a poll that year, Those 25 raced. Like, it's just, it's watered down two. Watered down, yeah. Yeah. I want the best, the best to fight for these, for these situations. Like, it's just like, you know, going in like those, those guys like Cedric Suarez, Harrison, Burton, like just, you know, just to name a few that I can think of off the top of my head. Like, yeah, they made the playoffs. Yeah, they won a race. But you know, those guys are not going to win a championship. [00:54:39] Speaker A: No. Right. [00:54:39] Speaker D: They just, they're not like they don't run well enough every week to outrun Denny Hamlin, Kyle Larson, Ryan Blaney, those guys, you know what I mean? So it's just, I just wish they would take the best 10 and not do the winning year end thing. The best 10 in regular season points. Those are the 10 guys that are going to go for 10 races. I feel like they had the freaking recipe for success from 2004-20. I think it changed in 2014 or whatever it was. I feel like that was like perfect. The only thing was Jimmy Johnson won it seven times is the only thing that screwed it up. But, like, it was, it was just perfect, man. And I think now if they did that nowadays it would really be. You would have guys, because the parody of the racing now where it's everybody so close. You would have very, very close. At the last race. You would have a two, if not three guys racing for the title within a couple points of each other for sure. [00:55:35] Speaker A: And like nobody's out there saying Michael Jordan dominating and winning all these rings ruined the NBA or that Tom Brady ruined the NFL. [00:55:41] Speaker D: Exactly. [00:55:41] Speaker A: Like, if there's a dominant athlete in your sport, then that's how it is. Like, that's how sports work. Sometimes some guy comes in and is a generational talent and he just dominates. [00:55:50] Speaker D: Exactly. To be the best, you got to be the best. [00:55:53] Speaker A: Yeah. You shouldn't change the system just because one guy is like generationally good. You know how hard it would be now for somebody to get seven titles. [00:55:59] Speaker D: Yeah, I agree. I agree with you. 100. [00:56:02] Speaker A: Like it could happen, I guess. [00:56:03] Speaker D: Well, they're talking about it could happen. [00:56:05] Speaker A: To someone who doesn't even deserve it. Exactly. [00:56:07] Speaker D: And you're talking now. And I didn't even realize this. They haven't had a guy go back to back since. Back to back titles since this format started, which is what NASCAR wants. Obviously they, that's what they want. [00:56:18] Speaker A: Different champs. Yeah, but it kind of makes the championship feel less meaningful. Like, to me, I was saying this, like, I don't think that the championship holds as much weight as it used to. I think the regular season championship does. Like, I love looking at who wins that. And I thought that it was a great battle. I mean, obviously if Kyle Larson had competed in the Coke 600, it would be him and Redick. And you know, I think Kyle Larson probably would have won it, but I don't know, I almost feel like there needs to be two championships now. And they do a regular season points championship and then combine that with the playoff points championship. [00:56:51] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:56:52] Speaker A: And so they award somebody a full season title and a NASCAR playoffs champion. [00:56:57] Speaker D: Yeah, I agree with that. [00:56:58] Speaker A: And maybe, maybe that would water it down. Maybe that would, you know, create more issues. But you know, why not? Like, I mean, people are already doing it on Twitter. People keep track of it under whatever points formats you want to see. So you might as well just acknowledge it and award somebody that as well and give them a ring or something. [00:57:14] Speaker D: Yeah, you want to award somebody for a full body season's worth of work. [00:57:19] Speaker A: I think so. And it creates more drama at Phoenix then. Because then you got these four guys racing for the NASCAR playoffs championship, and you also got maybe some other guys, maybe the same guys racing for the full season points championship. I think that could be great tv. [00:57:31] Speaker D: Yeah. Yeah, I'm. I'm with you. I really do just wish it was more. I mean, I just agree with you. I wish it was more of a. More sample size than just three in one race, you know? [00:57:41] Speaker A: Yeah. Do you think we'll see Ryan Blaney go back to back? [00:57:44] Speaker D: Dude, he's so good at Phoenix. [00:57:46] Speaker A: I think it's gonna be hard to beat him. [00:57:48] Speaker D: Yeah. Just between like, how he runs at, like, Gateway in New Hampshire and, you know, these flat mile, ish long tracks, I just. He's going to be hard to beat, you know, and I think with Penske having two cars in there, I mean, I wouldn't be surprised. I. Even though Logano, we're talking about regular season points, from what I see in regular season points, he's like 15th, like, even though he hasn't had the greatest year ever. Joe Logano is an incredible race car driver, and they're going to have two of the best cars out there. It would not surprise me to see him one, two, honestly. [00:58:25] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. I mean, now, though, that we've seen these penalties from race manipulation not being too harsh, obviously could get harsher. Do you think we'll see any kind of, like, manufacturer teamwork out there? Because I almost wonder, you know, if, like, they're going to take a look at the penalties that were handed down and, you know, you're going to see a Chevy blockade. It might. [00:58:44] Speaker D: Yeah. I just hope not. [00:58:47] Speaker A: I hope not, too. I mean, that would. Yeah. [00:58:50] Speaker D: Tarnish the whole shebang. [00:58:51] Speaker A: You know, it would be a stain. [00:58:54] Speaker D: That's another thing that's really bugs. Bugs me about this one race thing. So, like, you got the guy. In my opinion, you can really. Car. I'm talking about car wise here. You can just cheat like absolute hell in the last race because they're not going to let the champion get crowned the champion, do the whole shebang and then go tear his car down and be like, oh, nope, he's disqualified. [00:59:17] Speaker A: Yeah, no chance they're doing. [00:59:18] Speaker D: There's no chance, like, that's not going to happen. So, like, there's a reason and you know, you hear. I know it just for the first time ever happened last year, a car that wasn't the championship four won the race, you know, with Chastain. But there's a reason when they go into Phoenix at the top four cars are the playoff cars. And in my opinion, it's because they are cheated up to the absolute max as they could go. They're trimmed out. They're just literally every little thing you do to make that car go faster. They got it in those cars. [00:59:50] Speaker A: And I don't think NASCAR mindset. I think they want those four guys up front. I think they want to see that battle. And so I think they kind of like, you know, I'm not saying that they tell the teams to do it, but I think they definitely turn a blind eye. Yeah, like you're saying, I mean, they're not going to penalize them after the fact, but I don't think they're really checking that hard in pre race either. [01:00:06] Speaker D: Yeah, that's what. That's where. Exactly where I'm at with it. I just. And that kind of. That is what it is. I don't really know how to feel about that, but, like, I just wish it was. I wish there was more cheating all the way around, honestly, as bad as that sounds, I wish there was like it used to be like they. Like, really, there was more. Each of these cars could be the, you know, the smarter the creep you have, the better, you know, more aerodynamic or more horsepower, whatever your car is going to have. You know, I mean, don't get me wrong, I think Jimmy Johnson's an incredible talent, but he wouldn't have seven championships if it wasn't chat for chat canals. Building some of the most incredible race cars that have ever been built. You know, so all that goes kind. [01:00:50] Speaker A: Of a lost art these days. I mean. Yeah, you can't. [01:00:54] Speaker D: Yeah, you can only do so much when you have to buy the car. All these parts and pieces from an outside source, like, you're not in. You're not building them in house anymore more, you know, which is, I don't know, just not my. Not my favorite thing. But, you know, hey, yeah, what can you do? [01:01:11] Speaker A: I mean, they're trying to get new owners in and. Yeah, we haven't seen a new owner recently. I feel like we got a big wave. I wonder. I mean, it's a good segue into the charter thing because I wonder how, you know, how that plays out, how that's going to affect new owners coming in, because that could really shift the landscape a lot, too. [01:01:27] Speaker D: Yeah, I think you're not going to see anybody new coming in yet until all this gets figured out, you know. Yeah, and there's a lot. I heard that they. The judge would have a. So, you know, they went to court on Monday for the first time, and Jeff Gluck. And then we're talking like the judge, he could have made a Decision Monday. Like, it was in the. It was in the cards that he could have if he wanted to, needed to, whatever. But from what I hear, it'll be made by Friday on this first. [01:02:01] Speaker A: So we'll know before. Yeah, before the race. [01:02:03] Speaker D: Yeah, we should know before the race on, like, what the situation is. Like, if they're gonna let the way I understand it and you could go listen. Did you listen to Door Bumper Clear at all? [01:02:15] Speaker A: No, I didn't. [01:02:15] Speaker D: If you listen to the very first part of Door Bumper clear, Jeff Gluck does a great job at, like, explaining exactly what's going on with this week. So this, like, I think it's called the injunction, which is like, where they're kind of do this, like, speedy process is basically to see if front row and 2311 will get to keep the charters they have for next season. Because in the agreements that they've already signed now, this is the original agreement, what they signed. When this is over, if you don't sign it, NASCAR takes away your chart. [01:02:50] Speaker A: Right. [01:02:50] Speaker D: That was in the original thing, which they signed, you know, so that's where it's like, kind of. You signed it and it said, you can take them away. Now, that doesn't mean you can't fight on this next one for sure. But they're gonna. We're gonna know if they're gonna have their charters or not this week for next year. And I, you know, I hear. You know, I hear what Denny says about, like, we're gonna run, we'll run open cars. It's not going to affect any of our employees. They'll get paid the same, you know, whatever. And I believe all that. But there is a clause, and I haven't seen this about Bubba Wallace. [01:03:24] Speaker A: No, only ready. [01:03:25] Speaker D: Only read it. The clause is he can ghost to another team if they don't have a charter, so. [01:03:32] Speaker A: And how crazy would that be? [01:03:33] Speaker D: Crazy. [01:03:33] Speaker A: Especially if it wins the title. [01:03:35] Speaker D: Yeah. So it's just. There's some craziness going on in that. And NASCAR is being the bully, you know, in that way of, like. I mean, I saw some stuff, and I don't know how true this is, but, like, I mean, I've heard them talk about it, so I think it's kind of true. But if this happens, apparently NASCAR attains these charters and they can field cars. Yeah, like NASCAR can field cars. And so they're. From what I read, they're saying they're going. They're going off of. There's going to be 32 teams next year. And instead of splitting the money up 36 ways. The money gets split up 32 way. So, like, those 32 cars get more money. [01:04:17] Speaker A: Yep. And now you got more open teams and. [01:04:19] Speaker D: Yes. I don't. I don't know. [01:04:21] Speaker A: It's going to be really interesting. I mean, I just think it's going to be crazy if the sponsors run and if Reddick leaves. I don't think he would. I mean, that's just my theory and opinion. I don't. I don't think he's the kind of guy who would just bolt because they don't have a charter. I think he'd step up to the plate. [01:04:35] Speaker D: Yeah. [01:04:36] Speaker A: And as long as they said they were going to keep fighting to get the charter back, eventually, yeah, they, you know, he would stay in race for Denny. [01:04:42] Speaker D: And this is the thing. Go ahead. [01:04:44] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, I was just going to say, how big of a hit would it be to 23 11, though? They've hit this point now where they're nearly title contenders every year. I mean, they are. They're in the championship four. If they lose these sponsors, though, that's going to crush them. I mean, they. They have money, but they don't have the money to sustain it without the sponsorship dollars. [01:05:01] Speaker D: That was going to be my question. So, like, is it. Is it a. Is it an attainable thing to run a full season as an open car? Like, because you Open cars already get. You. You get paid less of the purse. So, like. [01:05:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:05:17] Speaker D: And they're fighting to get paid, obviously more money, give the teams more money, get more the per. You know, all the stuff. But is it possible for them to run two cars, you know, as open cars? Like, is it possible to do it with the front. Front row? [01:05:36] Speaker A: No chance. I would say, yeah. Front row is kind of screwed if that ruling goes against him. [01:05:40] Speaker D: Yeah. [01:05:41] Speaker A: 23:11, though, I think I. Michael Jordan, right. [01:05:44] Speaker D: Because Michael Jordan's. [01:05:45] Speaker A: You got. And you got these drivers. If Frederick stays, which I think you would, you have a good sponsor pitch to be like, here's an underdog story. You know, you can be on this part of this team and help push us, and, you know, you're going to be mentioned as this underdog fighting to go race every week, and it's going to be a different story than a typical NASCAR sponsor. So I think that they have the chance to make it into a win, even if that happens. But front row, I think, would be toast. [01:06:09] Speaker D: Yeah, that's. That's the hard part. And I read so not. Not talking about, like, the actual next year situation. But for, for what's happening right now, that 2311, like, needed another team to come on board with them, to like have their support. And so I think, and Denny talked about this on his podcast, but like, they're covering. 2311 is covering all the legal fees for front row. Like in this, like, they just need. [01:06:43] Speaker A: Very much leading it. [01:06:44] Speaker D: Yeah, they just need a front row to be their support. And like, we're going to. We're fronting the money for the lawyer, the court fee, however, all that works. They're fronting the money for that. And they just needed front row and Bob Jenkins to be there basically for the moral support and another team supporting this whole ordeal. But I agree with you, next year, I mean, Denny and Michael aren't going to fund, you know, front row next year. [01:07:11] Speaker A: Yeah, they're not buying front row. They're not like making it a four car team or whatever. [01:07:15] Speaker D: Yeah, something that's. That's the most interesting piece of this puzzle to me is, is we already know that Bob Jenkins and 2311 have bought a charter from Stuart Haas. What in the world happens to this team that's not a team yet? And then they're like open. What happens there? That's the biggest confusing piece of this whole thing to me. Like, I don't know, like, you know, they were like. I think it's like Gragson was going over to front row. Zane Smith and someone else. I can't remember. Michael Mc. No, Michael McDowell's going to Spire. Sorry. Oh, Todd Gillen's gonna stay there. [01:07:58] Speaker A: But yeah, yeah, they were expanding big time, though. I mean. [01:08:00] Speaker D: Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So I don't know what happens if they say if this judge rules, hey, you. You signed this piece of paper seven years ago and like Bob signed it seven years ago and then obviously Denny signed it when he came in the sport in 2021 or whenever they came in. You sign this piece of paper that said if you don't sign this agreement, NASCAR can take your charters, as shitty as that wording is, if the judge is like, you know, no, you're not getting these. You're gonna have to give away your charters until this whole lawsuit is over with. What are they? Where do those charters go? Like, what hap. What happens? That's. That's the big piece of the puzzle that's missing for me. [01:08:45] Speaker A: I think. I would imagine NASCAR would send them back onto the market if they can, because they would, obviously. I mean, they make so much money when they sell A charter. [01:08:52] Speaker D: Yeah. [01:08:53] Speaker A: And I think that was the whole point. Right. But like, I don't think that it definitely wouldn't go to front row. I mean, you know, I don't know. I wonder if it, like, then it would open the door for a new owner to come in and NASCAR would give it to him for cheaper. Or if they just hold on to them and split the, you know, like you're saying, just put the money less ways. [01:09:10] Speaker D: I, I don't. I don't know. I just. [01:09:12] Speaker A: I don't know. I do think that the judge is going to rule for the teams, though. [01:09:16] Speaker D: Yeah. [01:09:17] Speaker A: I just have a feeling that it's going to. At least next year these teams are going to have their charters. [01:09:23] Speaker D: This is my other question about the whole deal. [01:09:26] Speaker A: You. [01:09:27] Speaker D: So, so however many teams are in NASCAR, there's like 15 or whatever, 16, whatever. Okay, so we'll say there's 16 teams. We'll just say that. So 14 teams signed this agreement, right. That you're going to run X, Y and Z. This is how it's going to be for the next, higher seven years or whatever. Two teams didn't. If they rule in the team's favor and they settle this case, what happens does. Because they can't just change it for just 23, 11 and front row. Or maybe they do because those are the two that fought for it. But then what? Do they get more money than every other race car on the track? Or is this a team thing and it changes the landscape of the whole deal? [01:10:09] Speaker A: That's what I think it would. I mean, I don't know if it would be immediate. Right? I don't know. Because the teams didn't want to sign the charter agreement. [01:10:16] Speaker D: Yeah, exactly. [01:10:17] Speaker A: The ones who did sign it. But I don't know. I don't know if it could be immediate, but I think it would definitely open the door and the precedent for those teams to fight next time. Right. I mean, they would obviously jump at that chance, which NASCAR would hate. But, you know, I think the sport does need to be more team focused and I guess more team friendly. So I'm kind of rooting for the. [01:10:38] Speaker D: Teams, I think totally NASCAR, you know, 20 years ago, throughout the 90s and early 2000s, when NASCAR was the biggest sport in America, yet NASCAR has so much pull that you, you want to be a part of NASCAR like you, you want to be able to race like you want to do this. And that's when NASCAR can say, like, it's my way or the highway nowadays. It is not. NASCAR doesn't have that leg to stand on anymore. And NASCAR's in a good spot, don't get me wrong. But we all know it's not what it was, you know, 30 years ago. Like, you're not selling 250,000 tickets at, you know, Texas anymore. Like, it's just, you know, it's not happening. Like, and it just, like I said, it's in a good place. I'm not on that at all. I'm just saying, like, they don't have that leg to stand on they had 30 years ago to stand on. So now I do agree with the team side. Like, if you don't have the stars of the sport, like, people come to the racetrack and buy tickets because they want to see Kyle Larson and Denny Hamlin and Ross, whoever their favorite driver is, they want to come see to those. To come to the. See their driver, their star, you know, race. They're not coming because it's like, oh, the racetrack or, oh, I just, you know, because I love NASCAR or whatever. You know what I mean? Like, they're coming to cheer on their star. If you take out, if you take out guys, your, your Chase Elliott's, Kyle Larson's, Denny Hamlin's, your, you know, big, huge guys in the sport, if they just, if, if this is all hypothetical, obviously, if they didn't show up for races, they just quit showing up, I guarantee you ticket sales are going to go down by far. That's what NASCAR has to realize. Yes, that's what NASCAR has to realize. So that's why now the teams have something to stand on. That is why. [01:12:33] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, realistically, if the teams banded up and started their own racing circuit and brought the stars with them, that's, you know, that's like kind of what you saw with, like, the xfl, right? I mean, they got some stars, like, back in the day and all this, like, it, it, it becomes more viable if NASCAR continues to play the role of the bully. However, they also have such a hold with the racetracks and with everything else that it, you know, is obviously more complex than that. [01:13:01] Speaker D: I mean, just think, like, so there's however many. I know we race a lot of racetracks twice, but there's, you know, we go to these places 38 weeks of the year. They're only owned by two companies, SMI and NASCAR. Like, I think that's weird. I've all, like, I've always thought that's weird. Like, and then they've, they've put out every other racetrack that wasn't one of those things, you know, and then now they. They go by Bowman Gray. They. They have, you know, they've always had Wilkesboro, but like, Wilkesboro and all this. But it's like, I don't know, it's like it really is a monopoly. It just is a monopoly. It just is. You know what I mean? So, like, you have to. And I feel like somewhere in this agreement or contract or something, I feel like the tracks are also going to be involved in some way, shape or form because, like, that's also. There's a big component of this. Like, Denny talks about how he just laid his books open, showed him nascar. This is how much money we make and spend and whatever, but they can't get SMI or NASCAR to open their books. And now if this goes into an act, if they don't settle this before it goes to, like, real court, when it goes to real court, they're. They're going to have to open their books and show how much money they make, you know? [01:14:23] Speaker A: Yeah. So, I mean, if it doesn't get settled, this is, this is definitely going to start a multi year process that could really shift the landscape. [01:14:32] Speaker D: Exactly. And then in that multi year thing, what in the world happens to 2311? I just don't know if they can run those cars as open cars. It's just crazy. I don't. I don't know. I just don't know how the, like you're talking. [01:14:45] Speaker A: It would. [01:14:45] Speaker D: It would be interesting, sponsors and all that. [01:14:47] Speaker A: Like, even I still think they. They could be just fine because of the Michael Jordan factor. [01:14:52] Speaker D: Yeah. [01:14:53] Speaker A: But, you know, anyone else who joins them, like front row, they're going to be hung out to dry at the end of the day because there's just nothing that 2311 can do even if they wanted to. [01:15:01] Speaker D: Yeah, it's just. It's gonna be crazy. [01:15:03] Speaker A: It's gonna be interesting. [01:15:05] Speaker D: But. [01:15:05] Speaker A: It is. But we got racing coming up this weekend, championship fight. I mean, you said Blaine is gonna be hard to beat. [01:15:13] Speaker D: Yeah. [01:15:14] Speaker A: What are you thinking? You think he's gonna win? [01:15:16] Speaker D: I think Blaney has the best. Best chance to win. I really do. I just. The way he runs at these, these top racetracks is just, I don't know. I. Being hard to beat. I. Caleb's. Caleb's a huge Blaney fan. You're a big Blindy fan too, right? [01:15:34] Speaker A: Yeah, I like Blaney, actually. Likes plenty, a lot. I kind of want Reddick to win, though, this year, I think. [01:15:38] Speaker D: Yeah. [01:15:38] Speaker A: It would be cool to see MJ Get a ring. And I think he deserves it, too. I think Reddit deserves it. [01:15:42] Speaker D: Yeah, I'm a. I'm a Reddick. Reddick is up there on my list of favorite drivers. I. I'm a big dirt track. All the guys that come from, like, dirt track racing, I always have, like, those are my guys, you know, So I, I do like Reddick a lot. My buddy Wade works for Reddick on the pit crew. So, like, it would be. It would be really cool to see Reddick win this thing. I have some Reddit koozies, and I have a 2311 hat over here, too. [01:16:09] Speaker A: So you ready for. [01:16:11] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah. I like. I like. I like Reddick a lot. I just don't know. I just don't know. And if you look at Martinsville, dude, like, did you see how bad Reddick ran? [01:16:25] Speaker A: Like, oh, yeah, it was horrible. But also, you got it. You got to think that they brought. They brought a car. They did, you know, no prep on. They were not focused totally. [01:16:32] Speaker D: And they're focused completely on Martinsville, and I totally get that. But, like, to run that bad, I was like, super. I didn't expect him to go win that race, don't get me wrong. But I didn't expect him to run 35th two laps down either. I was like that. [01:16:43] Speaker A: I'm not even convinced he prepared for the race, though. He's probably been running Phoenix laps on the simulator all week. I don't think he was in the mindset of we're going to go out here and even compete. I think he was, you know, let's get on the track and then go get some beers and then get ready for feed. [01:16:56] Speaker D: Yeah, I agree with you. So I don't know. You know, you do have. You have Logano, who's been able to prep for two weeks. Logano is Blaney's teammate. They're going to. I'm telling you, they're going to have the same car. It's just going to be. It's going to be the Penske Show. I really do think as much as I want. [01:17:14] Speaker A: Yeah, it's such an advantage. [01:17:16] Speaker D: Yeah, I just. [01:17:16] Speaker A: Such an advantage to have two guys. But, you know, Hendrick is going to have one guy and three guys help open to support him. So. Yeah, we'll see if that plays into it. [01:17:26] Speaker D: Ready or Bowman? Byron. To me, though, there's something about his, like, clutch factor that's not there to me. Yeah, like, we've seen it. I make a joke every year. It's been this way for the last Couple years, Reddit or. I keep screwing these names up. Byron comes out at the beginning of the year, and he'll rattle off three or four wins in the first, like, 12 weeks. And then the summertime hits, and he runs like ass. And then he'll win, like, one more race towards the end of the year, make it to the playoffs because he had a bunch of wins and a bunch of points. But in these clutch moments, just like last year at Martinsville and just like this past weekend at Martinsville, he doesn't do it. And then last year, you know, he go. He still made it, and he goes to Phoenix. But, like, he doesn't, like, have that thing. Yeah, he doesn't have that thing. So that's my only. I think they have a. Would. Had a way better shot with Chase or Larson being that, like, for sure, clutch. Got to be in there to do it. You know what I mean? [01:18:32] Speaker A: So I think if Larson had made it, he'd be the favorite right now, you know, by. [01:18:36] Speaker D: He'd be the favorite. But then you'd also have to factor in how good Blaney is at Phoenix, you know? [01:18:42] Speaker A: Yes. So for sure. [01:18:43] Speaker D: You know, I don't. I just don't think in my mind it's going to be either Logano or Blaney. One, two. Switch those out. Reddick third, Byron fourth. [01:18:55] Speaker A: Yeah, I could see that. [01:18:56] Speaker D: That's not what I want to happen, because I would love to see, like I said, Reddick win, but I just think that it's going to be. I'll give you my final prediction. It's going to be Blaney, Logano, Reddick, Byron. Is how the final four will play out. [01:19:10] Speaker A: I don't know. I think one of the pens. You guys are gonna have a problem. I don't know which one. [01:19:13] Speaker D: I mean, that's the thing. You never. One blown tire, one bad pit stop, anything, and your race is literally, you're done. [01:19:20] Speaker A: Yeah. So. And that is the thing. I think one of them finishes, you know, maybe on the lead lap, but not. Not well. [01:19:26] Speaker D: Yeah. Something else that's weird to me outside of Phoenix, like, race wise, not being the greatest race ever, and it never really has been. [01:19:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:19:35] Speaker D: They're. The championship race is one of the shortest races of the year. [01:19:39] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:19:40] Speaker D: Which. It's only 300 and, like, 12 miles, which is. [01:19:43] Speaker A: That is weird. Like, why wouldn't you make that the biggest test? Make that the Coke 600. [01:19:46] Speaker D: Yeah. Yeah. [01:19:47] Speaker A: You know. [01:19:47] Speaker D: Yeah, I agree. Like, why? I wish the final race was like a. Here again, a sample more of what happens throughout the year with these four and 500 mile races. [01:19:58] Speaker A: I think it's time for them to start rotating the championship every year. Oh yeah, they need to. Because like, how do you have a track where you just know one guy's better than other guys? [01:20:05] Speaker D: Yeah, totally. I think you. [01:20:07] Speaker A: I mean, obviously that's gonna happen, but the only way to mitigate that is to rotate it. [01:20:11] Speaker D: Yeah. In it, they. It all has to do obviously with weather and apparently also because nascar, they want it to be a NASCAR on track, yada yada, ya. Which NASCAR owns? Homestead. But like, let's be. If you're going to even just drop it. [01:20:27] Speaker A: Yeah, you could just switch between Phoenix and Homestead every year. [01:20:30] Speaker D: Yeah, I was going to throw Vegas in there as well, even though that's smi. But like you have Vegas, Phoenix, Homestead. If there could be like a three year rotation of that, like, it'd be pretty cool in my opinion. Yeah, all three. Like Phoenix is the least racy track of the group. But like Las Vegas is a great racetrack, obviously. Vegas is like party town of the usa. [01:20:53] Speaker A: Like, I feel like that'd be a great market. [01:20:54] Speaker D: Yeah, I feel like that would just work, you know, but obviously the, the thing there is like with SMI and NASCAR on that one. From what I hear on podcasts and stuff, I don't know how that works. That also is more lawsuits and money. I'm sure that goes into all that. [01:21:09] Speaker A: Yeah, but no doubt. [01:21:12] Speaker D: Yeah, I just. If. If it could be. I mean, I loved it at Homestead. I. And Homestead is just a great. I mean, we just saw it like Homestead, they're great racetrack. [01:21:23] Speaker A: Yeah, no, it totally is. [01:21:24] Speaker D: Yeah. So I don't know. I'm with you though. Like, I just hate it being Phoenix every single year. And if they wanted to rotate, it'd be cool to see Homestead, Phoenix. Homestead, Phoenix or you throw in Vegas. I would love to see it at Kansas because Kansas is so freaking awesome. [01:21:39] Speaker A: But that would be crazy. [01:21:41] Speaker D: I guess it'd just be too cold there in November. You know, I. I would just be too cold, I guess. I don't know. [01:21:47] Speaker A: But yeah, you know, it's the same reason a lot of cities won't ever host a Super bowl. [01:21:51] Speaker D: But yeah. [01:21:52] Speaker A: Yeah, it just. I don't know. Yeah, some. Some kind of rotation though needs to happen because you can't have this at the same exact track every year. [01:21:59] Speaker D: Yeah, I agree. And expect. And it sucks that it's like Phoenix because Phoenix, like isn't like Phoenix always sells out. Phoenix is a great city. And the. They say, I've never been to the racetrack, but, like, they say the facility in, like, the racetrack and, like, all the stuff there is. [01:22:14] Speaker A: Yeah. Super nice. [01:22:15] Speaker D: Yeah. Top tier. [01:22:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:22:17] Speaker D: But the actual racing aspect of Phoenix has just really never been good. [01:22:24] Speaker A: No. [01:22:24] Speaker D: Like, I remember this was, like, I don't know, 10ish years ago, but if you remember a finish where it was Kevin Harvick and Carl Edwards, were they, like, beaten bang across the finish line at Phoenix. Like, Phoenix has had a. Like, that's the last, like, cool finish I remember at Phoenix. [01:22:43] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:22:44] Speaker D: But even people talk about, like, that race. Like, I don't even really remember the race. I don't think the race was that good. It came down to a late race, caution, and there was a really cool finish. Like, just the actual racing at Phoenix, no matter what car they've been in or what era of NASCAR was, it's never just been like, oh, my God, Phoenix, you know, like, it doesn't have those moments like Homestead and Vegas and Kansas and Atlanta and all these places like that, you know, so. [01:23:11] Speaker A: No, it really doesn't, but hopefully, you know, hopefully that'll happen. I think that. I think we're trending towards that. [01:23:19] Speaker D: Yeah. [01:23:19] Speaker A: You know, at least switching it up for a year and see what happens. [01:23:22] Speaker D: They say that they. The city is, like, putting together a plan to, like, almost, like, bid for it. Like, they do, you know, Super Bowls and stuff to bring the. The race back to homestead in 20. [01:23:34] Speaker A: I. I think they should. [01:23:36] Speaker D: Yeah. I think it's 20, 26. I think next year, Phoenix is for sure happening, but. [01:23:41] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, they put the schedule out. Yeah. [01:23:43] Speaker D: Is. Is what they're talking about. So. Yeah, I'm with you. I think it would just be really beneficial to have it rotating every year. [01:23:51] Speaker A: Yeah. But we'll see. I'm hoping for a good race, hopefully some exciting. At least an exciting finish. [01:23:56] Speaker D: Yeah. I'm just hoping some crazy happens. It's not. It doesn't involve sandbagging, is what I. Yeah, no, that's. [01:24:02] Speaker A: That's unfortunately the most likely scenario, but, no, I think it'll be good. But. Yeah, I mean, Blaney, I think Reddick's gonna win. I. I just think he's gonna pull it off somehow. [01:24:13] Speaker D: It'd be cool. [01:24:14] Speaker A: Hopefully he doesn't. [01:24:15] Speaker D: Yeah, it'd be really cool. Really interesting for NASCAR to give Denny and Michael the trophy in the middle. [01:24:21] Speaker A: Of a loss, wouldn't it? [01:24:22] Speaker D: Be some. That'd be. [01:24:24] Speaker A: It'd be some wild. That would be wild. It would be crazy. For Michael Jordan to be a NASCAR. [01:24:28] Speaker D: Champion, it really would be. [01:24:31] Speaker A: Do you think it would sting Danny if that's his first ring? Says the owner. [01:24:38] Speaker D: I don't know. [01:24:39] Speaker A: I think it would eat at him a little bit. Right. I mean, he's, like, fought so long to try to win it as a driver, but I think he'd be happy, too. [01:24:46] Speaker D: Yeah. Yeah. I think if Denny was in the final Four and Reddick won the championship, I think it really would bother him, and he would, like, have a hard time enjoying it. But because. Because he's already out. I think this coming week, he's, like, full owner mode, in my opinion. [01:25:10] Speaker A: I'm sure he is. Yeah. He's probably not prepping much as a driver at all. [01:25:14] Speaker D: Yeah. So. [01:25:14] Speaker A: And, I mean, he's in full lawsuit mode, so he's already in owner mode in that sense. [01:25:18] Speaker D: Yeah. So I think that's because you saw, like, how dejected he was at. At Homestead, like, even though that was ready, like, his team made it, but he's, like, super. [01:25:30] Speaker A: He knew that was a shot, though. I mean, he was right there. [01:25:33] Speaker D: It also kind of made me laugh, like, which I kind of love this, but, like, literally every guy interviewed in that race after Homestead was just depressed. [01:25:41] Speaker A: Like. Yeah. [01:25:42] Speaker D: Everybody kind of had their head down. Like, they were just kind of talking like this and, like, you know, like, just not really looking at the camera and that. I mean, that shows you how much, like, it means to have that win again. [01:25:53] Speaker A: Yeah. That's what you want to see, right? [01:25:54] Speaker D: Yeah. You don't want to see, so. And I think I heard Denny, maybe they talked about on his podcast or he posted it or something, but he was talking about how he never really went into owner mode in that situation. Like, it was all driver, you know, like, just, you know, all driver. So it was. I'm trying to think, has there ever been a team that was owned by a driver that won a championship while the driver was racing also? [01:26:30] Speaker A: I don't think so, because, I mean, Stuart Haas definitely never won a title, but Stewart. [01:26:36] Speaker D: When Harvick won, Stewart was racing. [01:26:40] Speaker A: Was he still. Yeah, he was active. Yeah. At least he was racing for his team. [01:26:43] Speaker D: He was racing for his team. That's correct, but true. He was ready. [01:26:48] Speaker A: Yeah, I guess. [01:26:49] Speaker D: Team. [01:26:49] Speaker A: So I bet it happened at some point, like, a long time ago. [01:26:52] Speaker D: Yeah, I'm sure it did. I just can't remember. You know, I remember back when, like, Earnhardt was still racing and DEI was, like, kicking ass, you know, and they were, like, really, really strong, but it he never got to be around, which they never won a championship, but they never, never got to. You know, he wasn't racing for a title. He never raced for a title while his team was racing for a title. You know what I mean? Like, that never. That never happened. And in my opinion, if Dell Earnhardt would have stayed alive, DEI would have been like Hendrick Motorsports now. [01:27:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:27:24] Speaker D: Like, they would have been. [01:27:24] Speaker A: They'd be huge. [01:27:25] Speaker D: Yeah, they would have been the thing. So that would. I think that would have happened, you know, after. At some point. [01:27:33] Speaker C: But. [01:27:33] Speaker D: Yeah, I'm just trying to think. I don't know. I can't think other than that. Like you said, he was racing for his team, so I don't know if there is a. [01:27:42] Speaker A: Yeah. And I mean, even if Kozlowski was in the final four, he'd be racing, you know, against Bush or whatever. They still are on the same team at least. So. [01:27:48] Speaker D: Yeah, I think. [01:27:50] Speaker A: No, it's a very unique situation. [01:27:51] Speaker D: Yeah. Yeah. I think there was a. There used to be a rule, and I'd have to get fact checked on this, but I think there was a rule for after. After Dale died somewhere in the last, like 20 years, up until recently, obviously up until about when Denny came in and did this. If you owned a team as a driver, you had to race for that team. [01:28:18] Speaker A: I think you're right. [01:28:19] Speaker D: I think that was a rule. And then that got changed at some point in. In like five, six years ago. But there's a. Yeah. Where that was. [01:28:28] Speaker A: I think they knew they needed to. If they wanted MJ to come in, and they wanted that for sure. [01:28:31] Speaker D: Yeah. Yeah. So that might have been the year it got changed. Like when. 20, 20 or 21. Whenever they. I think they came in. In 21, I think. [01:28:40] Speaker A: Yeah. Yes, I think so. Because I think even when Stuart Hot Scott founded, like, they. They needed Tony on their team if you wanted to own it. [01:28:46] Speaker D: Yeah. And Tony went. He did. Yeah, he did it. [01:28:48] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I think you're right. [01:28:50] Speaker D: Yeah. And I can't. That was. I think that was around like 2000. And I think he started that in like eight or nine. And then he won a title for them for himself and 11, which was that we were talking about. And then Harvick won in, like, I want to say 14 was the year he won. [01:29:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:29:10] Speaker D: Harvick won the first year of this. Of like, stage racing and. And this elimination style thing. Like, he was. I think he was the first one to do it. [01:29:20] Speaker A: Yeah. No, I think you're right. And I think. I think that rule probably did shift because of the MJ effect. [01:29:25] Speaker D: Yeah. Yeah. [01:29:27] Speaker A: So. But it is kind of crazy. Like. I don't know. We can talk about this in off season, too, but not not wanting to race for your own team is a little wild to me. [01:29:35] Speaker D: Well, I. Denny. Denny talked about, like, when he felt that his team was. I don't think it's out of the question that Denny Hamlin races for his own team one day. I really. [01:29:50] Speaker A: No, I don't think so either. I think he will, but he wanted charters. [01:29:54] Speaker D: Yeah. He wanted it to be up to the level of how it is when he gets into that 11 car like that, prepared, you know, that much money, that much sponsorship, you know, all the things. So for sure. [01:30:05] Speaker A: And it's hard to blame him for that. [01:30:06] Speaker D: Yeah. Yeah. So I think. Because, like you said, that window's closing for him, and, you know, he wants to win a championship for Joe Gibbs. I mean, you know he does. And FedEx, and, you know, now that FedEx is. They even made another announcement. They're coming out even more next year, like, not sponsoring them as much. But. Yeah. I don't know. It's just interesting. I do. My hot taker bold prediction is Denny Hamlin will race for his own team one day. I guess it'll all just depend on if they have charters and how all this goes. [01:30:39] Speaker A: But if they. Yeah, if they have a team. [01:30:41] Speaker D: Yeah, I think. I think he will one day. [01:30:43] Speaker A: I think so, too. Even if he's, like, 50 when he does. [01:30:46] Speaker D: Yeah, I agree. [01:30:48] Speaker A: But we'll see. I mean, I'm excited for the race this weekend. Yeah, dude, we'll have a new champion next time, so. [01:30:53] Speaker D: Yep. Me and Lindsay will be in the mountains, so we're gonna watch it. We'll be watching it up there. Probably at a bar or something somewhere. So there you go. [01:31:01] Speaker A: I'll be at the race, so. [01:31:03] Speaker D: Oh, you're going. [01:31:04] Speaker A: Yeah, me and Ash are going down to Phoenix for the ASU game, and it's just the same weekend, so. [01:31:09] Speaker D: Dude, let's go. [01:31:10] Speaker A: We'll be there. [01:31:10] Speaker D: That's gonna be sick. [01:31:12] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm pumped. [01:31:13] Speaker D: Y'all have passes, like, gonna be down in the pits or y'all. [01:31:15] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll be down in the pits, so. And I'm taking my dad, which would be fun, because he's never been down there in the pits. That'll be sick. [01:31:21] Speaker D: Dude. That's gonna be super sick. [01:31:23] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm very excited. [01:31:24] Speaker D: Yeah, we'll definitely talk about that next week. Let me know how that goes. [01:31:28] Speaker A: No doubt. But, yeah, you want to take us out? [01:31:31] Speaker D: Yeah. Y'all can find us on social media. I'm Dawson Edwards. Music across the board. Raise Rowdy Racing. I think it's RZD Racing on Twitter. Follow Raise Rowdy Racing everywhere else. Raise Rowdy. Raise Rowdy. Matt Burrell. I think his Instagram still just Matt Burrell. Raise Rowdy. Nikki T. You can give a shout out to all your socials. [01:31:56] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, Ike Everard on Instagram. Follow ashlyn1624 as well. [01:32:01] Speaker D: Yeah. [01:32:03] Speaker A: Yeah, man. [01:32:03] Speaker D: Yeah. Thank you all for listening. We'll be. We'll be back next week. One day. Not, probably not Monday because we'll all be coming back into. Back into town. But, yeah, we'll see y'all next week. Thank you all for listening. I don't drive a Monte Carlo and my truck ain't painted black? It ain't got a big white number three turning left around a track? But you can hear me coming from a mile and a half away? These good years can't handle dirt? Don't need no curves with banks? What I like in horses I make up with four by four I'm in and out of traffic till I make it to your door? Checkers records, my right foot's hammered on the gas? I'm making my way to you, girl Earn hard fast.